RLD Group, LLC - Executive Coaching & Consultancy
Lisa Duerre built her expertise in leadership development during her 20+ years as a leader in technology talent development and customer success at Synopsys and Applied Materials. In 2017 she co-founded RLD Group, a boutique coaching and consulting firm helping tech organizations turn their people leaders into their biggest asset. She helps leaders in tech build high-performing teams, avoid burnout and be present for the moments that matter.
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Cheri Honeycutt 00:01
Oh boy, I'm so excited. I find that I say this Lisa, every time I'm on a podcast because I'm looking in the face of someone I love and care about and today is absolutely no different. I am so excited to have a conversation with my friend Lisa Deurre. Lisa is someone I met in a community that attracts some really awesome people, that it has put me in the pathway of this phenomenal woman and you know, when you're on and now Lisa and I have only met on zoom, right?
Lisa Deurre 00:34
We only met on zoom.
Cheri Honeycutt 00:34
We've only been together on zoom. Right, but I don't know about you and I'll let you speak in a minute. I'm giving you a long introduction here but you know how you see this little square by this point and you go oh, that person in that square, I like, you know what I mean?
Lisa Deurre 00:48
Cheri Honeycutt 00:48
That's my introduction of you. I saw this woman in this square and I thought I’d like her. So, how are you today, Lisa?
Lisa Deurre 00:57
Oh my gosh Cheri, I saw you in a square and I liked you too, you know? Like, do you know how am I? I'm excited to be here. You know, the world around me is beautiful and overwhelming at times. You know, I have a birthday coming up so I'm in a reflective moment, right, like what’s happening? And I'm thrilled to be here, how's that for real.
Cheri Honeycutt 01:20
I'm so glad. You know, at least I just have to say this too, I made a vision board. I make vision boards, you know what those are, right? When you put pictures up of things you want. Did you know that you're on my vision board? And I see you every morning when I get my hair done, when I dry my hair. I took a picture, I know it's hilarious. I just think, this is just dawned on me, I took a picture of when we were on the leadership team and it's a zoom screen and you're holding up a little sign and there's several faces on there. And that symbolizes how I want to do community and how I want to be a part of something even in this online set, so I see your face every single day.
Lisa Deurre 01:56
Oh my gosh, Cheri, that's means a lot.
Cheri Honeycutt 01:58
Isn’t that funny? I'll send you a picture. I would send you a picture sometimes.
Lisa Deurre 02:00
I would love that picture. Yeah, you know, I don’t have a vision board but you're in my mind's eye because you are someone who, can I tell the story? Is that okay?
Cheri Honeycutt 02:09
Lisa Deurre 02:00
A very quick story, so the way that Cheri stood out to me, everyone is listening. I was in a very, something that mattered to my soul training event and it was my wedding anniversary and I had had a conversation with my husband that this is really important to me as are you. Right? We can have dinner together but I instead of taking the day off, which we normally do together, so I really want to be in this. It feeds my spirit, it's good for our business, we own a business together and here comes these flowers in the middle of it. And we were on a break and the flowers got handed and the camera happened to be on and you saw them, you said wait, let's take a picture. Like, you know, we don't even like know each other but you can tell that moment was special and then here comes through messaging, a picture from Cheri of me, my husband and my flowers with him supporting my dreams, right and then for honoring our day. And so, you're with me always just in that moment to have someone to witness a moment that was so special and to create a way for me to capture that memory. So, I'm just very grateful that you know, that happened that day.
Cheri Honeycutt 03:08
I love you know, I love that story on you know, that this is significant for me as well to see because you know, my work is about living on purpose and I could just feel from you, Lisa. Which is why we're having this conversation today, that your relationship was important to you, your willingness and need to be with this community we were a part of was important, which is exactly what I sensed about you was an intentionality. Also, a comment you made about your daughter and so let's get into that, I want to know more and I'm going to go ahead and say, I've had some guests on here who I know really well. Lisa, I know, I don't know a lot of the stuff that you're about to tell me so I'm excited to know. So, I am going on a hunch and you're getting ready to confirm what I already know is about how you've been living your life intentionally. And so, when I say living on purpose, tell me how that lines up with you. Just talk, tell me about your story.
Lisa Deurre 04:08
I will say this, let's see I'm just trying to compartmentalize and like process and integrate really quick. So, intentionality, I think is a great word to start with. So, living on purpose for me as I define it, is being clear on how I want to feel and then taking steps to feel that as much as I can and that's pretty much the opposite of how I live most of my life up until about 10 years ago, quite honestly.
Cheri Honeycutt 04:38
Say more about that.
Lisa Deurre 04:39
Before that, it was set a goal, achieve the goal, check it off the list, move on, goal. I never really gave thought to the feelings that were underneath the goals. I just was like get the promotion, buy the house you know, find the love of your life, have a baby blah. And listen, all that sounds like not exciting, it was all exciting. All exciting, right? And Along the way, I definitely felt like I was losing myself, you know? I remember when my husband and I, we were friends for six years, we dated for three and we'd be married for almost 16 and I'll remember, I'll never forget I was like, we're not living together until we're engaged, I'm old school you know, blah. I was 30 [inaudible 05:19]. And so, we finally got engaged, we moved in together and I remember driving to Walgreens every day before going home because as excited as I was to be with this man who I've known for so long and I was so in love with him and then I still am, I didn't have any personal space anymore. And I would go to Walgreens and I would walk up and down the card aisle and just see what cards spoke to me. Sometimes I buy a book, sometimes you know, I'd look at the snack aisle, depend on my mood but that Walgreen moment was my transition to get fully present to meet him and till I take care of myself.
Cheri Honeycutt 05:53
I love that, okay.
Lisa Deurre 05:55
So, that's like my first recollection of life on purpose. Something so amazing, I set a goal for that I wanted but I also didn't want to lose myself. So, I'm saying all that in the summary of what it means to me is that when you set goals without clarity and how you want to feel and then you hit the goal, usually you're dissatisfied because it doesn't always feel the way you thought it was going to feel but you don't really know that.
Cheri Honeycutt 06:20
Oh, my God! I'm about to pee my pants, let me just tell you because first of all you said, I wanted to know how I want to feel, I have to tell you, almost 100% of the time with my clients, they come in with these hard goals they want and I have to back them up a notch and go, I get what you want but let's get to the feeling first.
Lisa Deurre 06:46
Cheri Honeycutt 06:48
You know, which is sort of counterintuitive, it’s kind of the way we're raised. We go straight to the concrete, measurable, smart goals, you know right? And I just wrote here, on my own notes for something else I'm doing, you've got to know who you are before you could know what you want because if you don't, you'll end up getting what you want but you won't be happy.
Lisa Deurre 07:09
Cheri Honeycutt 07:10
Right? And because you figured that out, you had to feel, I mean what you want to feel and then you kind of fessed up that you had to figure out how to do it differently.
Lisa Deurre 07:23
Cheri Honeycutt 07:10
Well, tell me more about this transition because I think you're spot on here.
Lisa Deurre 07:28
Well, there’s so much to this that what I know to be true for myself and listen, I bring this into the work I do as well, right? So, what I know to be true is that if you're not clear on how you want to feel, you're making uninformed choices, like it's like all about external requirements or expectations or whatever. And what I can tell you is that when I transitioned from being single and working to being engaged and working, to being married and working, to becoming a mom and working because I love what I do, I had to reinvent each step of the way. And the only way I really got clear on that was to keep asking myself, how do I want to feel? Now, I'm going to tell you, Cheri I am not an expert at this. This is a life journey and you can do it at any time, right? So, by no means am I sitting here being, I've got it all figured out.
Cheri Honeycutt 08:21
Lisa Deurre 08:22
So, when I still figured and when I burnt out, which I did, I've actually flamed out and had to come back. The way I came back was how do I want to feel? And it's something that for me, I didn't learn growing up, it wasn't something talked about in our houses. And my daughter will laugh okay, mom, I know the first question, how do I want to feel today at school, right? It's like, everyone blows me off but I also know it sinks in because people will be like, I know how I don't want to feel and that's for part two.
Cheri Honeycutt 08:50
Right! It's a bright start.
Lisa Deurre 08:54
Yeah, I feel like, you know how I want to feel when I get home? I want to feel connected and present with my husband and guess what, I don't even feel connected and present with myself yet. I'm going to Walgreens. Right? So, even if it was on the park, I don't go, not everybody goes to Walgreens, this is not an advertiser to Walgreens. I just happen to be on my way home and I love cards and cards to me they are like my messages and I would pause and go oh, look at that, there's a funny card, a serious card and it will just help me like, tap back into something that I didn't know how to tap into all the time. Yeah.
Cheri Honeycutt 09:23
Oh, gosh, there's so much right there that I want to just reiterate here that some part of your wisdom, some part of you knew on some level when you pulled into Walgreens that you were needing something, right? And you could have either plowed on through and driven on home and ignored that nudge but you follow the nudge even if you couldn't really name it.
Lisa Deurre 09:44
Yeah, most of the time I couldn’t name it.
Cheri Honeycutt 09:45
Lisa Deurre 09:44
It just was like, the car just made its way to Walgreens, do you know? Yeah.
Cheri Honeycutt 09:49
Yeah. And so that, first of all is that there's this part of us that often knows how to take care of ourselves if we'll listen, right?
Lisa Deurre 09:59
Hello, welcome to the inner world.
Cheri Honeycutt 10:00
Hello there, you know? Exactly and because there was something you needed and then now do you still go to Walgreens?
Lisa Deurre 10:09
You know, Walgreens is a once in a while, it is not I mean it used to be daily, do you know what I mean?
Cheri Honeycutt 10:15
But you don't need it this much anymore?
Lisa Deurre 10:16
I don’t need it this much because I've learned, right? And I've also found language around it, in my relationships.
Cheri Honeycutt 10:23
Lisa Deurre 10:24
And I also am very clear on my core values now. So, to know that, you know I want to be fully present with my family and I want to be fully present at work, there is a transition needed. And you know more complicated now right, with everybody working from home and never sharing space. There's still a little ritual every day when I leave, you know, we call it popsicle time. So, the transition for my daughter, come home from school, I don't know, I can't really tell you how it started. It's just, mom, you're working too much I want to be with you, blah. And I realized, okay, we need that transition time and I'd say, ‘let's grab a popsicle and go outside’ and that was just my way, that was my new Walgreens I guess to like, have the intension and connect and it's still to this day, if we don't have popsicle time, she is mad and I feel bad. Like, it matters and so I've made an agreement with my clients, I've made an agreement with my family like, popsicle time is sacred and that's what matters. And so, I guess Walgreens turned into popsicle time, if I'm honest.
Cheri Honeycutt 11:22
Oh, my gosh, Lisa, I love this. So, you're so wise, I'm just like so excited for the people who are listening to this because what you've just given us, Lisa, is you've broken this down into something that can be big, and scary and even place where we have judgmental about ourselves. [unsure 11.41] I love my family but I want to go home or we don't honor ourselves or I'm really burnout and then they snap, you've given us an example of some small and I don't mean small but small in time, little ritual that honors yourself, your family, your daughter and I mean we’re talking 15 minutes?
Lisa Deurre 12:02
Yeah, sometimes an hour, I’m not going to lie.
Cheri Honeycutt 12:05
Okay, well, good because you enjoy yourself.
Lisa Deurre 12:07
I blocked the hour and then you know, yeah, I blocked the hour.
Cheri Honeycutt 12:12
I love that but that also, that idea I can only imagine from the perspective of your daughter, that she would begin to go okay, I know it's just 30 more minutes then I've got mom and she's able to sit and that and wait and patience because she knows it's coming at something she can depend on. You know, and I love that you said that you've trained your clients, you've made it your condition of satisfaction, I will show up for popsicle time. So, I love though you alluded to I don't want to go back to it, you didn't always do this. You're talking about some burnout and some triggers and those kinds of things, can we talk about that?
Lisa Deurre 12:50
Should we go there?
Cheri Honeycutt 12:52
Can we go there?
Lisa Deurre 12:52
Cheri, let's just like, you just used this beautiful little thing where everything sounds great, at least as the world but like, let's just peel that out, right?
Cheri Honeycutt 12:57
Lisa Deurre 12:58
Yeah, of course. Listen, I don’t even [cross-taking 13:01], absolutely.
Cheri Honeycutt 12:59
We're going to roll it back because we know in the service of those who are listening.
Lisa Deurre 13:06
Not only in the service of those listening, it's a great reminder for me to so I'm going to use, I’m going to call it a combo, right? Because all I know is we all are on the verge of burnout. We are, you know, it's just a matter of time and choices and for me, I'll just tell you my story. Let me just like, it was always myself completely. Okay?
Cheri Honeycutt 13:29
To the extent you feel comfortable with that, that would be great. Okay, go
Lisa Deurre 13:30
No, I’m going with that because here is the thing, I hope you’re listening because I hope you can find yourself at somewhere on this path and give yourself the grace to not go where I did. Right? So, yeah. So, it's midnight, I'm in the emergency room at the local hospital with my laptop and my colleague and I'm waiting for the doctor to come back in to tell me if I'm having a heart attack. I'm literally in the hospital bed.
Cheri Honeycutt 13:57
On the computer?
Lisa Deurre 13:57
On the computer because there's a presentation the next day and this presentation is to be done by me because I'm the senior executive on the team. It's going to the executive staff, you know, protocol and process and you know, also ego, okay? And badge of honor, I will get it done no matter what and my two-year-old daughter is home asleep and my husband you know, picks up the phone and I'm calling I still don't know the answer but at seven o'clock when I called him I was like, I'm going to the emergency room just a quick stop on the way home.
Cheri Honeycutt 14:31
Quick stop at the emergency room, by the way.
Lisa Deurre 14:31
Quick stop at [unsure 14:32] babe and he was like, what! So, he knew my colleague was with me and you know, and we also had a two-year-old at home, we didn't want to freak her out but you know, he's sitting at home worried. Is my wife dying? Am I going to be a you know, single parent? What the hell? And I'm working on a PowerPoint and I can tell you he's pretty pissed and he’s pissed at the company and he's pissed at me but he doesn't want to own that he's pissed at me because he's worried about me but I know he's pissed at me, right? Not, like you went to the emergency room but how did you let yourself get here, Lisa? So anyway, no heart attack, yay. Right?
Cheri Honeycutt 15:04
Lisa Deurre 15:05
However, allergic reaction to antibiotics that cause muscles to tear, tendons to tear and they didn't figure that out, by the way, they just discharged me and said, it's not a heart attack. We don't know, see your PCP and I'm like, well that's useful, right? Like, because I had this radiating pain up you know, it was bad, I took a picture and I sent it to my boss around midnight and I said, hey it's been a long night. I'll be there in the morning, you can count on me but the reason you're on the slides is I'm still working on them at El Camino, right at the hospital. I'm thinking to myself, now I'm so embarrassed to say this, by the way because it's like anybody listening to this are going to like are you freaking crazy, right? However, badge of honor showed up the next day, did the presentation, right and they later learned what happened. My husband said to me, okay, Lisa, I know you love your job and I know you love your family and someone is going to give their tuts, this is my grandmother, I'm channeling right now.
Cheri Honeycutt 16:07
Tuts, I love it.
Lisa Deurre 16:07
He doesn't say tuts, my grandmother says tuts not my husband. So, I go to the doctor for the follow up and he says to me and I'm crying and I'm embarrassed you know, and I'm like, something's not right. And the doctor says, Lisa, you have Silicon Valleyitis, you are not broken. There is nothing wrong with you like, you are in a system that perpetuates and rewards and I'll use my words, pictures of yourself in a gurney, in an emergency room finishing a PowerPoint, right, like, you’re part of a system. And I see more people each week because of this, which you know, burnout he called Silicon Valleyitis than anything else. And you need to take control of your life back and I just kind of looked at him and thought, no, it's got to be something else. I guess not burnout, I don’t have no time for burnout.
Cheri Honeycutt 16:57
I don’t have any kids, is there not a pill? You can't just give me.
Lisa Deurre 17:02
Can I tell you? I looked for that pill. Yeah and then that's how I got the allergic reaction because honestly, I had bronchitis for three weeks and I was sick of coughing. So, my other doctor you know, one of those phone call visits was like, well try this antibiotic because that one's not working and that's what happened.
Cheri Honeycutt 17:20
Oh, my goodness.
Lisa Deurre 17:21
Yeah, did something happen to my video here. Okay.
Cheri Honeycutt 17:25
There you go.
Lisa Deurre 17:25
My bottom line and all this is a long story, I hope it's helpful to people is, I lost track of how I wanted to feel. Right? I lost track of what mattered most, I thought that the only way to define success was powering through no matter what, not asking for help. Right? And it was brutal. Yeah.
Cheri Honeycutt 17:50
You know, I have such gratitude for this story. I can relate to it in some ways, I've had my own little hospital visit and the word that comes up for me is martyr. Maybe yours was badge of honor, mine had more of a martyr flair to it, you know, it's like, oh, yeah.
Lisa Deurre 18:15
I’m so dizzy no one could possibly do it, yeah.
Cheri Honeycutt 18:19
Yeah, I'm the only one and but tuts, somebody's got your attention, tuts, sounds like your husband did.
Lisa Deurre 18:27
My husband and the doctor did an intervention. Yeah. So, the truth be told, the funniest thing about this piece, Cheri and I think I want to share it so that people know they're not alone. I took a medical leave. I wouldn't take it right away, I had a project to get done. Okay? It wasn’t like, you’re going out right now, tuts. Right?
Cheri Honeycutt 18:43
Yeah, of course you did. Right.
Lisa Deurre 18:47
It was like, oh no I’ve been in for weeks, I’ve got a project anyway, took the medical leave and then snuck my phone and kept working. Okay? So, my husband knows I was on a medical, leave team knows I'm on a medical leave but you know, how important than I that I might possibly have to check emails all day. So, my husband called the doctor and said, she's not following the rules. We need a conversation. So, that was about a week, I went back in and he sat me down and he said, okay, you're not taking this seriously. Here's the deal, I'm not going to do this unless you're willing to do this but it means you get off your damn phone, you go sleep, you know you do you. So, my husband took my phone and hid it from me, went and got me a personal phone and said, here you go and I was like, massive withdrawal, judgment, shame, depression, anxiety, lost, tears and then once I just kind of let all that really bubble up and how I wanted to feel I was like, how do I want to feel safe and supported? And I'm like, I don't feel safe and supported right now, what is there? I have no work requirements, my husband has got my back, my kid; I can see my kid more and I honestly Cherie, I think I've hibernated like a Bearwood. I slept so much and then I slowly came out of my cocoon and I thought mental health support. I got a nutritionist to get better at my navigating the ups and downs of weight experience and I read, I went to the beach and I prayed and I journaled and I found the book via map, which is how I learned how do you want to feel? That was it.
Cheri Honeycutt 20:28
Daniel Laporte’s desire map. Yeah. So, what I am curious about and I'll circle back around but I just want to reflect what I've heard, you were, can I use this word almost in a place of addiction?
Lisa Deurre 20:44
I was a total worker addict, absolutely. Yeah, God bless you. Hello, you had me you know, work addiction, yes.
Cheri Honeycutt 20:28
Total work addict, okay, good. I don't want to use that word but you hadn’t used it yet, yeah. Okay, your addiction but you had to come off that you had to hit rock bottom. And again, I'm not an addiction specialist but that's the language that I'm hearing. And fortunately, it was a safe secure one because you had a loving husband, you know what I mean and a doctor who finally threw the bullshit flag on the play for you?
Lisa Deurre 21:09
Big time is the flag, yes.
Cheri Honeycutt 21:13
And then it sounds like you really and I love that, that when that was taken away, you ask yourself, how do I want to feel? And I love and see if I heard this right, you said I want to feel safe and supportive and if I don't feel safe and supported right here without my work, this is where that feeling is going to come from. Right? Oh my God, that's so beautiful and then I just could see as almost like this movie scene and then Lisa starts to wake up and she's on the ocean and she's reading a book, lala.
Lisa Deurre 21:46
I wish it was [cross-talking 21:46]
Cheri Honeycutt 21:13
Yeah, I'm sure it was fits and starts but it does sound like that you started to craft a different way to live.
Lisa Deurre 21:56
I mean, to use your phrase, your tagline and what you do, I started to design my life on purpose. I did.
Cheri Honeycutt 22:03
Yeah, sounds like it. Yeah and so the power of that I mean, that means making a different choice that may be easier now but my guess is as you were transitioning from the workaholic to the non-workaholic, you had to be incredibly intentional, right, on how you managed your work. My guess is it wasn't seamless, I don’t know, tell me.
Lisa Deurre 22:28
Cheri, yeah I thought about quitting. I was just like, I'm not going back. They're all going to think I'm a nut job. I'm on a stress leave, you know? How can I, I can't face these people, I let them down and over time, I realized if I don't go back, I will never have the learning that I know is on the other side of that door and it was scary.
Cheri Honeycutt 22:50
Oh, say that, again? If I don't go back, I'll never have the learning.
Lisa Deurre 22:52
Yeah, I’ll never have the learning from the other side. Right? So, I thought to myself, I'm not a you know, workaholic expert, either I just have my own experience but I knew enough to know that the learning is going to be and how I make my choices going forward. That running away I mean, I have a supportive boss, I had an amazing team. I mean, I was at the same company for 21 years, I knew enough to put my ego aside and I knew that one of the things I needed to figure out was how to ask for help and advocate for myself and make myself important and you know, self-care wasn't you know, just massages. Right? And so, I chose to go back and massive doses of therapy in that three months, physical, mental health all focus on wellness and I'll never forget going back and being so nervous from people were like, how are you? Right? Like looking at you and, how are you? How are you, Lisa? And in my head I'm like, how are you, you broke in a hole that left us all stranded, right? And I was like, okay they’re probably not saying that but yeah that’s what I was hearing.
Cheri Honeycutt 24:01
Lisa Deurre 24:02
So, I went back and I sat my team down and I said, listen, I am so proud of this team and I'm so grateful for the grace you extended to me over that time. I'm here, I want to do a great job but I also know you've been holding down this fort the entire time I was gone. So, you tell me what's different. How have you changed? What do you need? What do you like? And then let me tell you how I've changed but I'm curious about you first, like I wanted, I don't know if that was chicken or bold but I wanted to know because they had stepped into my shoes and they pulled you know, they had done all this. And I didn't want it to be about me, I wanted it to be about us so I did that. And then I shared with them, I need to move more, I sat too much, right? I need to drink more water and I would like to have breaks in between meetings. So, I would like to rethink with you how might we organize ourselves and structure our workdays to where we can all, I'll use your words be on purpose and oh my God, Cheri we started having walking one on ones, we had water challenges with timers, we made sure that we honored everybody's times that we all stated when we're at our best and you know, when we're you know, feeling low. And I also found a wonderful app that had music on it, I think it's called relaxed melodies and there's a flute. And it's like a, like, I want to say, like an Asian flute. It's like very Zen and I said to my boss, hey, every time I walk into a meeting with you, I'm already anxious because I'm not grounded yet. I would like your permission to start with the flute. And me, my boss was like, what in the heck is going on here? But I would walk in and he said, sure, whatever you need, right? I said, I'd start with the flute and he would instantly relax and he would be like don’t put it off yet, just leave it two more minutes, Lisa. And so, it became another ritual of being able to just own the fact that we are in an always on, never good enough, where we place you tomorrow environment, that is tech by the way and how can we manage our anxiety to be present with each other, to get performance out of the conversation you know, where we need to go? And so, I'm forever grateful for that man who said play the flute on.
Cheri Honeycutt 26:13
Oh, my gosh!
Lisa Deurre 26:14
My team would laugh at me like, I was a flute lady, right? We joke but I'm like, you know and my family know it too. So, I did take steps and I stayed for over a year to really prove to myself that you know, and not [inaudible 26:29]. They worked me to death, they never you know, they just kept giving me more. When you're a high performer, you're going to get more work, people. Right?
Cheri Honeycutt 26:37
Yeah, you are.
Lisa Deurre 26:37
The boundary you are new, they're never going to be no, you have too much, never. I had to remember that. Yeah.
Cheri Honeycutt 26:41
Right, exactly. Right, I do want to talk about how you've taken this into your own business but I want to come back to something you said. You said that the doctor first told you that you have siliconitis, that the system is broken and I know this little bit about like, family systems therapy. Like, if the kid has wrecked the car from drunk driving, it's not just about the kid, it's about the whole system. Right? And so, you were a symptom perhaps, of the whole system and by you going to get helped, by you stopping and going to get help I mean, this is not hyperbole, you switched, you came back in and you healed your team. You made it okay to have energy that waxes and wanes, duh you're human, you made it okay to need, to have a transition, to have breaks to drink, to have water.
Lisa Deurre 27:40
What a concept, actually hydrate. Right?
Cheri Honeycutt 27:42
What a concept? Yeah.
Lisa Deurre 27:42
I used to drink but I didn’t have the time to go to the restroom, no joke. Yeah.
Cheri Honeycutt 27:46
Yeah but I also love that you took responsibility because it was really your choice because in my work around, living on purpose, my number one step in living on purpose is take 100% responsibility for everything in your life. And it's so easy to say, they work me to death, the job, blah but you just took responsibility, didn't you? You're like, I have to set my, you just said it, high achievers, you have to set your own boundaries. Right?
Lisa Deurre 28:17
And check your ego by the way. Yeah, so your boundaries as your ego because your ego is once you’re not enough, your ego is the fast track of your body, yup.
Cheri Honeycutt 28:17
And so, check your egos, our egos, yeah when the ego is behind the wheel, it's welcome on the bus but it shouldn't be driving the bus. So, I want to hear how now you've moved this into your own business and what you're doing with this on a even bigger, larger scale. Tell us.
Lisa Deurre 28:41
Thank you for asking because it's really, it's an opportunity for me to just reflect back. So, I will tell you, it was not easy to decide to leave the safety, especially as I was back in my groove and things were working, at the same time that that was going on when I went back, my mom was terminally ill and a dear friend mentor, someone who had been in my life for 20 years would help me become the leader and woman that I am in business passed away. So, I had a compelling event that happened where I started really thinking about legacy, talk about live, designing your life purpose I'm like, yeah okay, so how much am I impacting the world by being here? And is there a way to have a greater impact here or differently? So, I just started how might I, right and whose shoulders am I standing on and what obligation does my soul feel to expand and not obligation in a negative way but I guess a calling, what's the calling I want to answer that's a better word? So yeah, I formed a business with my husband and we are on a mission to eradicate burnout in tech and because I have my own experience and because I've been in tech my whole life, it's you know, it's never far in any conversation but I have a professional background as a human resources professional with you know, experience across the different functions and tech because of the benefit I had of being inside an organization for so long. So, we formed our LD group, which stands for rebooting leadership drive and we are on a mission to eradicate burnout in tech by equipping leaders to show up with boundaries and also remember the human in all of us as they lead and so we provide coaching and consulting services to help shift that ‘always on, never good enough, where we place you tomorrow’ kind of scarcity, fear, constructive energy to the collective wisdom that can be, you know, awakened in each of us to be our best selves at work and at home because those two matter and they intersect and I think human work is important.
Cheri Honeycutt 30:57
Absolutely. How is that bid received?
Lisa Deurre 31:00
You know what, Cheri? I think because I have my own experience with it, we've been very blessed because our business is honestly through word of mouth and referral. We are really busy. We actually have six coaches now on our organization because there is such a demand for it and we are working through as you and I already know, the lens of strengths, appreciative inquiry and then dealing with the shame and self doubt that we all experience, right, so conscious leaders. So, those three combined, it's been very well received. I don't always call it that when I'm having conversation. It might be like, what’s that maxed out, I can help you, right, or, you know, a high performing team and you're burning out, I'm your girl. You know, we can help you, that kind of thing.
Cheri Honeycutt 31:48
You don't say the seven spiritual principles too, fine.
Lisa Deurre 31:52
You know I did, I’ll tell you this though, if I can celebrate with you one thing that was really great, I ran a session with the CEO of a major tech Corporation, I think it was two weeks now and I had never worked with them before. And I, you know, I am myself, I show up as me and in the conversation, we were talking about appreciation and gratitude. When it comes to strings, we're going around the table talking about this string really helps the team because and here's what I appreciate and one of the staff members said, you know, what are we really talking about here like, what's the secret sauce to this? And I paused and I thought to myself, okay, Lisa, here we go and I said, I think it and I’m going to tell you my answer.
Cheri Honeycutt 32:26
Here we go.
Lisa Deurre 32:27
And you may not like it, but I said it's love and I said, this isn't about love, romantic love at work, I'm talking about love of yourself, your values and who you are and love of your fellow teammates and their humanity. I'm not saying have to love everything about them but when you come from appreciation and gratitude, it is an expression of love. So, I'm not going to tell you it's not and then someone else said I think it's about, what did they say, not compassion? I think it was compassion, they said I like the word compassion better. I said, pick your word. Like, I'm not here to define it for you but what we're talking about is like life generating, life giving, connection, so that you can be as a team stronger, smarter, better, faster than you were when you're in silos and then your own and closed down.
Cheri Honeycutt 33:15
Exactly. And so actually, what folks want is to feel like they are productive and contributing but the way we've been pushing and pushing and cajoling and shaming, whether it's self-shame or the culture has not given us the result. It's ironic when we can actually sit in a real sit state of self-love and be connected with the people we're working with, we still produce at a really high level. We still I mean you know, it's not either or you don't just sit around and Kumbaya, you get shit done. Right?
Lisa Deurre 33:47
Yeah, I'll tell you but I know, statistically over the last report I read was burnout is causing a $1 trillion-dollar lack of productivity expense across the US. So, you can't tell me you're high performing and getting the best out of your people when we know the stats on burnout these days, it is ramped up. And then so you have the productivity loss, right, then you have shame and self-doubt and I'm going to get fired and lose my job and I'm going to work on my PowerPoint and send my picture in, right? Then you have the medical costs associated with all those doctor visits me just like me that the company and the employees are sharing together, it's kind of strophic, it has to change and yeah. [cross-talking 34:31]
Cheri Honeycutt 34:29
It does. Well, I’ll tell you, yeah, well, I'm going to out my husband but just like three weeks ago, we were in the ER and he had a heart attack up from stress. And we have been rearranging our life in the last three weeks and his level of stress was, he looks in, he's going to be mad at me, I know he won't be mad at me but he sorts of looks the same. You know, he doesn't have any external signs of stress but when we were really honest, when he would say you know, I was 24/7 worried about the cause that I couldn't return and it was after COVID and the world's coming back blah, spin. And then we're in the ER and they say heart attack and about you know what, right there in the end but what so we've been working and how do we live intentionally? And I'll tell you some of the things you've said, we are actively doing again in my home of ritual, reconnecting to what's important, right sizing request. There's a difference between something being important or an emergency. Do you know what I mean, it's like how do we wait things properly? And I think the closer you get to burnout or you know, you begin to miss label things and you forget yourself and when you forgotten that. So, I am so grateful. I'm just trusting that the people who are listening to this, they're either personally identifying, they're connected and take from your story, Lisa, that it doesn't necessarily have to get to the point where you're in the ER, right to pay attention. Yeah, if you had to, now that you've you are an expert on burnout, what might be some signs that folks might begin to see that are earlier than I mean, what can folks look for?
Lisa Deurre 36:27
I can tell you. Yeah.
Cheri Honeycutt 36:31
For them to say I need to pay attention.
Lisa Deurre 36:32
I was like, I want to pull out my Jeff Foxworthy, you might be burning out if you know, right, you’re about to be burned.
Cheri Honeycutt 36:39
You might be burned.
Lisa Deurre 36:40
And I want to go there and I hope it’s okay with you, I would just want to circle back for a second because what you just shared is super important and I don't want to skip on that for a second. First, I want to say, I'm so glad you guys have, that you and your husband and your family have the opportunity to reset and reimagine and to know that you're in a place where you both can do that as a couple. I dread to think about what this conversation could have been you know, other way I just to witness.
Cheri Honeycutt 37:11
Thank you, Lisa.
Lisa Deurre 37:13
I want to put some energy around that because that, Cheri you just gave, that's huge. You know, and I just really hope that if someone shares something anyone listening, if you hear message like that, please make sure to just like, honor that.
Cheri Honeycutt 37:28
Thank you, Lisa.
Lisa Deurre 37:28
Like, we are in a society where, that was uncomfortable. Let's go over here, you might be burning up and I'm like, wait, I can't go back there.
Cheri Honeycutt 37:34
And you know, I will tell you, I didn't mean to skip over so quickly and maybe it's actually a real sign that Mark and I have been, we felt so much gratitude for that little heart attack he had. I really, that's a genuine, that's where we genuinely are that it's not as loaded as it would have been three weeks ago.
Lisa Deurre 37:52
Okay, that’s a fact.
Cheri Honeycutt 37:53
Because yeah, we’ve used it. So, I didn't mean to drop a bomb and then move on to the next thing.
Lisa Deurre 38:00
Yeah, I went to the hospital, you know and I’m like I always tell my leaders, when people hear hard stuff, they sit still for a minute.
Cheri Honeycutt 38:03
Lisa Deurre 38:04
You know, work with the clients. So, yeah.
Cheri Honeycutt 38:05
Lisa, good teachable moment there.
Lisa Deurre 38:09
Cheri Honeycutt 38:10
Lisa Deurre 38:11
And then you know, the question is, do you feel complete? And you’ll go like, yeah move on, right? Yeah and they go like I’m fine. Okay.
Cheri Honeycutt 38:16
I'm fine, Lisa. I’m fine.
Lisa Deurre 38:19
So, you might be burning out if, right? The first thing is I would, I encourage you, I invite you to look at your sleep patterns. It will tell you very quickly if you're on the path to burnout, right? If you're not sleeping and you're not waking up rested, massive red flag. And I know we all go, I'll sleep when I'm dead. And I have a kid, how can I possibly sleep, blah. I get it, been there I can tell you all of them and I'm not suggesting that you're wrong. I'm just saying to you prioritize your sleep because what I know for sure, what I've learned is how regenerative sleep is to ourselves and to our mind and our ability to enter clarity to make decisions and to be intentional. So, sleep definitely pay attention there.
Cheri Honeycutt 39:03
Lisa Deurre 39:03
The second thing is if you're feeling extra snarky and like everything is bigger than it used to be and people are like, you're kind of not acting like yourself. Like, I got really snarky. I thought I was very jaded. I was like this all, everything's broken, this all sucks, blah, blah, right? And it's like, wait a minute, it's not all like, in this moment, I'm feeling irritated is way different than everything's broken. So like, check your snark factor, that's another one, your snark factor.
Cheri Honeycutt 39:26
Gotcha. Your SF, check in on that.
Lisa Deurre 39:31
I’d say the third one is and this is also gets confused with depression, right? The things you used to like you don't like doing like, they're not bringing you the joy and you know, that could be depression, it could be burnout but I would pay attention to it to just be curious, so you can catch yourself and go when's the last time I laughed? Or when's the last time I called a friend or when's the last time my husband and I had lunch together like, I'm making these up for you but to pay attention to stuff that still matter if you're not prioritizing it, forgetfulness is also another one. You just get foggy brained and you can't remember what you said you were going to do? And you know, there's another one too that comes up, sometimes you get bored and people don't really understand that that can be burnout a lot of times but you get bored, you’re just like nothing's challenging and that can be kind of boring.
Cheri Honeycutt 40:18
Like a lethargy, kind of bored, Lethargy?
Lisa Deurre 40:21
Or just like, it's almost like apathy, like you don't care but it really is boredom and it has to do with like, repetitive, everything's the same and I'm seeing that a lot. Since you know, the land of COVID that has you know, swarmed our world, same thing every day, everything, you know, constraint. So, you kind of got to go, wait a minute, I'm just existing instead of thriving and so I'm not saying that that's burnout but you can burn out from that. It has a tremendous toll in your mental and physical health.
Cheri Honeycutt 40:50
These are so good and I can tell you, even though my husband is the one that ended up in the ER, I have to admit that I was also feeling some of these very same feelings. I just didn't end up, it didn't show up in my heart, it showed up in another way; the snarky, the apathy or the boredom. So, I hope folks listen to this, your sleeping patterns are off, extra snarky, can't find joy, nothing, the things that used to bring you joy don't anymore, forgetfulness and a boredom, those are some really good things to look for. And I love that you know, they could be depression, could be burnout but it is worth taking a look at. And then going back to something you had to do which was hard for you, you said, which is need to get some help, either whether it was to help you with work or to go and say I need help. Yeah.
Lisa Deurre 41:50
Yeah. And you know, help can be in many ways, right? So, one of the things I can tell you is, my story is beautiful in that I had a spouse who was like, really paying attention but there's plenty people that don't have spouses that you can still get help. You know, whether it's a friend, a colleague you know, my colleague that went to the hospital was very clear, like you're on the verge of burnout. Like, she just couldn't get me to stop, she was just like, well, I guess I'm on for the ride. Like, I'm not leaving you alone. Like we don't leave our people alone so there's different ways to get help you know, there’s EAP, you know, the Employee Assistance Programs at work. There’re hotlines, there's all kinds of ways to do it but the thing is, when you're burnt out you're like, this feels really hard. So, you might need to ask somebody to hold your hand or make a call or just be there with you and hold space while you do it. I've done that for people, right except with them.
Cheri Honeycutt 42:39
Yeah, when you're feeling low, whatever low is, it's really hard to go do the very thing even if you know it but if you can eke that out just to ask one person to help you. I love this. So, Lisa, as we're wrapping up, I have a couple of questions for you.
Lisa Deurre 42:55
Yeah, I’m in.
Cheri Honeycutt 42:56
First of all, is there anything that you wanted to share that I haven't, that we haven't talked about? Is there anything else you want to tell, share that I haven't asked you?
Lisa Deurre 43:07
I'll say I will add this because it's something I feel so strongly about, it's the power of music. And so, like I have a podcast you know, it's called Ctrl, Alt, Delete. It's burning out you know, how to reboot from burnout and rebooting work and we have a podcast playlist and the reason I'm bringing this up is I asked every person what's a song and watch what happens with you, Cheri? What's your go to song that lifts your spirits when you're down?
Cheri Honeycutt 43:36
Journey, don't stop believing. If I want to feel like, I'm a beautiful person, I listen to Indie Arie, I'm light.
Lisa Deurre 43:45
That's me. I am light, goosebumps. I have a froggy voice.
Cheri Honeycutt 43:54
[sings I am light] I even had it engraved on my ring out.
Lisa Deurre 43:57
Cheri Honeycutt 43:58
Shut up, I know.
Lisa Deurre 43:58
I met her once, have you met her yet. Oh, yeah, we have to [cross-talking 44:01]
Cheri Honeycutt 44:01
Shut up. Okay, Indie.
Lisa Deurre 44:02
So, watch what just happened, you see how your energy just shifted. Okay, so that's what I'm talking about, just real quick for people. So, you know, we're like, you need to get help and everything's low and tired and by the way, body aches and pains that are undiagnosed and don't make sense, burnout. Right? Okay.
Cheri Honeycutt 44:17
Also, on the list, right.
Lisa Deurre 44:17
So, with the music, the thing I want to say about music that I just found so much gifted was, boy, when I put on that song. I am light, don't stop living, mine is Chaka Khan. Anything Chaka, I'm like, listen, it's a whole thing. It changes something for me and so I just want to make sure I land that for people because it was really helpful to me to just lift my energy even by 1% sometimes, to be okay, I can do this. Right? So, yes, thank you for asking me that.
Cheri Honeycutt 44:43
That's so great and I remember years ago, I invited people and I worked up I was doing to find their theme song.
Lisa Deurre 44:51
Cheri Honeycutt 44:51
So, if you don't, I mean be able to answer that question. Right? So that's your homework, listeners, find your song if you don't already have it. If you do have it, go listen to it. Awesome. Tell me one thing that keeps you really centered, give us an idea of and you've mentioned popsicle time, is there anything else that you do that's really helpful?
Lisa Deurre 45:12
Yeah, at dinner time and my family teases me but when I don't do this, they asked, well, why didn't we do that? Gratitude, what are you grateful for? I mean, the simplest things like we give thanks, this is, I give thanks for this food and for the people that are with me right now is what I always say, right? Because I'm trying to center at the dinner, whoever's with us and then I say and I'm grateful for blah. It is so grounding and getting us present in the moment and remembering and sometimes it's really hard, I might be like, what am I grateful for? And then they'll start, they'll give me, what about this, honey what about, so there's, like, there's a community, gratitude you know, support mechanism. It's really great. Yeah
Cheri Honeycutt 45:55
Beautiful. We have that in common as well but we do it right before we get to sleep. I love that. Okay, so last question, if given a choice, is it dark chocolate or milk chocolate?
Lisa Deurre 46:06
Dude, you're killing me.
Cheri Honeycutt 46:09
Lisa Deurre 46:11
Cheri Honeycutt 46:13
Milk chocolate. Okay, we'll still be friends but it'll be different.
Lisa Deurre 46:19
It’s only milk chocolate that I went to [inaudible 46:17] and they’re cute bars. Right? But like dark chocolate, it has little almonds in it and some sea salt. Like, this is why I react to it.
Cheri Honeycutt 46:23
Seriously, sea salt, lots of choice. So, we've got the chocolate going on here. Lisa, the list, the notes I've taken I know I feel in my heart that the folks who are listening to this have been changed, have been moved, have been inspired. Perhaps some folks have felt have really resonated and for those I'm feeling the most blessed that you have shared your story because through your, you know this phrase in the speaking world from your mess comes your message. Yeah. And so, thank you so much for sharing so openly your mess and so that you converted it into such a powerful message and I love you, sister. Thank you.
Lisa Deurre 47:05
Cheri, thanks for loving me and for creating such a safe space to just go there. I love you too. I love you from the day you snap that pic, I was like she is good people.
Cheri Honeycutt 47:13
Same here. I saw you in that square, there was, right.
Lisa Deurre 47:16
In that square, yeah and I want to thank the listeners listening too because what I know for sure is this will help somebody, right? Your story of what you did with your husband, my story, we’re all more connected than, we're all more alike than we are not and I'm grateful for this time with you. Yeah, thank you.
Cheri Honeycutt 47:35
Absolutely, thank you, Lisa.